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Join Zoom Meeting - https://zoom.us/j/7183806281?pwd=WHVnUUlkWWhhcnRaYk9sWWQyOEkvUT09 | Meeting ID: 718 380 6281  P: 370553 

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Date

Time

3:30PM EDT (UTC-4). Note that the calls are now two houris in duration.

NOTE FOR TODAY'S CALL:   Due to HL7 HQ scheduling an all-hands webinar at 4PM EDT today, we will break for that hour in the middle of our call and resume at 5:00EDT.   The call will be extended until 6:30PM EDT as necessary to make up for the lost time.

Quorum  as of 3:35PM PM EDT.  Call  paused for attendance at the HQ webinar at 4:00PM EDT.  Call recommenced after the HL7 webinar at 5:05PMEDT.  Call completed at 6:36PM EDT

Attendees

Apologies

None received

Planned Agenda Topics and Notes

  1. Roll call and Agenda check (Chair)
    Review and documentation of the HTA/Vocab call this week.
    Add item on HTA issue below as well.

  2. Announcements (all)
    • .UTG Pilot underway.
    • We will break in the middle of our call for the all-hands webinar by HQ at 4PM EDT.

  3. Action Items Check  (Chair)
    1. We acknowledge that we need to take care of the items on this list. Rob asks that co-chairs especially review their action items and resolve or update
    2. Attendees and especially chairs are again urged to finish and check off their action items.
    3. Carmela has set up the block vote ticket items below


  4. Baltimore/September WGM Planning (Chair). Tabled, out of time.   Next call
    HL7 has just announced that the WGM will be held virtually - NOT in Baltimore onsite.    We need to begin planning for it now.   The HL7 anncouncement says the WGM meetings will be held Monday, September 21 (afternoon) - Thursday, September 24; the Plenary session will be on Monday morning.   The agenda for the virtual meeting will be created soon.  We await information from HQ about times and schedule recommendations for the Virtual Sessions.   Perhaps we can give HQ some suggestions as to ways to setup the sessions so that we can make best use of the limited Human Resources.   Carol will set up the blank template and we will begin to work on it once HQ gives us more information.


  5. Vocabulary Policy Items Needing Decisions (Ted Klein). Tabled, out of time.   Next call
    1. Code System versioning
    2. Policy around 'breaking changes'


  6.  Issues around 'extensible' and 'unknown' (Carol/ Ioana Singureanu /  Jay Lyle). Tabled, out of time.   Next call
    1. There has been some feedback, and progress today.   Many email commentaries 
    2. The project team is working through the comments and changers to address the criticisms
    3. The specific instance of the issue was around the use of a SNOMED code in a coded data element that is extensible (this is not about the value set binding).
    4. It is noted that folks are taking liberties with the encoded of stuff just to get their work done.
    5. This original point is now closed. 
    6. Rob notes that we still need to discuss issues around the use of extensible in the CARIN project (see comment below).   This further related discussion will be placed in a slot for the next call.


  7. UTG Update (Carol/Jess/Ted). 
    1. Status
      1. All information is posted on the  UTG confluence pages and immediate priorities are on UTG Project Tasks broken down by milestone (i.e. publish Release 1 of content)

      2. Content is published we are essentially live.  Not yet doing the Jira workflow process for updates though
      3. Education webinars are designed and recording will begin next week
        1. First education Webinar complete, remaining 3 in work.
          1. Intro for the community at large; available at    
      4. Content Issues
        1. Due to an unfortunate snafu, the coremif from March 2019 (1436) was used to generate release 1.0.0 instead of the December 2019 version (1451).  Work is underway to fix the issue
        2. Due to another unfortunate breakdown in communication, the incorrect FHIR resources were imported
          1. The generated ones with the narrative instead of the git ones that are the source of truth
          2. Work underway with Grahame to fix this
        3. Due to a timing issue, the FHIR resources for the R5 preview site were updated with their versions after the R4.0.1 versions were imported
          1. Work is underway with Grahame to fix this in UTG
      5. Workflow issues
        1. Significant permissions and algorithm issues were discovered in the JIRA settings for the UP project late last week
        2. Most of these were fixed early this week by Josh and Ted
        3. Needs further testing
    2. Pilot underway
      1. We need more folks to go to Jira and look at it and comment on the proposals and/or vote on those in Consensus Review.
      2. Any problems or issues we need to know about as the system has not yet had enough testing and we can only fix the problems we are told about.
      3. Feedback and issues from the Pilot are logged on Participating in UTG Pilot Testing
    3. Versioning of UTG objects - only the HL7 maintained code systems and value sets
      1. Note that at this point, all changes are tracked with a Version History entry in UTG (Provenance resource instances in hx bundles)
      2. We are doing change tracking on the HL7 Naming System resources in UTG, as well as the external Code System 'stubs' 
      3. There was an extensive discussion on this topic on the UTG call this week and we need to come to closure.
      4. We decided we need a table of the code system elements to make specific decisions on which ones, if changed, will trigger what type of version update to the code system.   Table on Confluence is here.
      5. For this initial phase, all things that are "clean up" of the concept.definition element (eg removal of typos, garbage encoding, nonsense brought in by the import etc) are a major number increment to the code system resource for v2 and v3.   These should all be a one time cleanup per code system and/or value set.
      6. Post that being done, versioning will follow the approach vocabulary WILL approve and it will be applied consistently.
    4. Easy cross reference of the UTG resource filenames (and their paths in the branch) with the canonical URL so the proper resource to edit for a change proposal has been posted to Confliuence and can be found at: Cross Reference of Resource Elements and Filenames.  
    5. Discussion/Decision items all UTG items below this are out of time and tabled
      1. The plan is STILL to:
        1. Complete the pilot in 2-3 weeks
        2. Get the voting stuff settled with SGB and TSC
        3. Go over where we are with TSC and CTO, and seek Go-Live decision in June
        4. Announce Go-Live to membership and "turn it on" in July
    6. Immediate Priorities
      1. Fix content issues
      2. Finish debug of curator workflow - implementation flow
      3. Finalize the voting stuff
      4. Get educational materials ready 


  8. FHIR Tracker Items (Rob Hausam/Carmela).  Limited time - only H below address today.   Next call the other items.
    1. Not yet progress on update of ConceptMap
    2. All folks are requested to join the every other Thursday calls on this topic because without attendees no decisions can be made.  The calls alternative with these main Vocab calls.
    3. Please can folks attend the FHIR tracker calls on the off weeks, we need more people to attend the calls so that we can make progress on the trackers. 
    4. There are a few issues currently marked 'ready to vote'; please look these over as we hope to vote on them on the call next. (same time slot as this call next week). The JIRA query for this is: The JIRA query is named Vocab: ReadyForVote.  There are a number of items in this ReadyForVote state.   We will work through some now:
    5. We tried to get through the one on NamingSystem.title, but could not come to closure; too many knowns on the FHIR governance of spec updates..
    6. We then tried to get through the one on NaminngSystem.use code enhancement for v2 support, and again we could not come to closure as too many unknown in the FHIR governance around maturity level 1 items (code systems, naming system resource, etc) that are code datatypes bound requited to FHIR code systems.  Needs clarification from Grahame/Lloyd.
    7. On last week's FHIR tracker call more tickets have been added into the 'ready to vote' bucket. 
    8. BLOCK VOTE:
      1. 26551, 26550, 25395, 25272, 25179, 23786     
      2. (note 23785 was removed from the original list based on comments in Zulip https://chat.fhir.org/#narrow/stream/179202-terminology/topic/Vocab.20Block.20Vote.20-.20June.2025.2C.202020 )  
      3. Jim Steel entered some comments on 25272.
        Rob McClure moves that the block be accepted, Carmela seconds.   Vote;  8/0/1, motion carries.


  9. Gender Harmony Project Update (Carol/Rob M)   Tabled, out of time, next call.
    Project is progressing.   Working on figuring out "default values" for the 3 notions.   Every call and meeting progress is being made, document defining these is out for review.  A great set of participants from a wide audience are now actively involved and participating.   Unknown if a document will be ready for ballot in September or not, all these items turn out to be harder than folks think once one begins digging into them.    Folks with questions or suggestions are urged to go to the Confluence page for the project.

    An AMIA panel topic was submitted for this in mid-November around HIMSS.


  10. Liaison Reports     Tabled, out of time, next call.
    1. ISO (Ted) - Fall 2020 meeting tentatively scheduled to be in India in October, but unknown what the status is.  Right now my personal feeling is that it will be cancelled.

    2. LOINC (Ted/Rob H) - New LOINC release: LOINC 2.68 and RELMA 7.1 are now available for download from the LOINC.org website.

    3. HTA (Carol/Reuben) -  HTA continues to work through the external URI issues

    4. SNOMED (Rob H/Reuben/Peter) - For now the Lisbon meeting is proceeding, but not yet a decision on virtual or face-to-face.  But one way or another it will happen. 


  11. New Business
    1. Joint HTA/Vocab call this week had a number of items we need to review and document and explore consequences.
      NamingSystem and CodeSystem resources in UTG for external code systems.    HTA and Vocab WG agreed further discussion.   Two issues:

      1. What role does HTA and Vocab WG have in the governance decision process when a member of the community wants to add a UTG code system resource for a non-HL7 terminology?
      2. We need to provide guidance for how these objects need to be used.    We need a process that is in between a heavyweight process of oversight, and the current nearly zero oversight process.  
        Suggestion:   when HL7 has to technically deal with an artifact owned by others (e.g. an external code system) then HTA must have oversight and governance responsibility for these objects.   When HTA, through their own processes, determines that something must have certain values (e.g. a canonical URL), then that value SHALL be used for all de novo created HL7 published artifacts using it.  For such objects that may be used in an "STU-like" way (meaning that the values are temporary) 
        1. For any IGs being developed that assign values (URLs, content, metadata etc) for such external objects that are NOT published was a "standard", then it just be VERY CLEAR that this information may be changed once the owners and HTA become engaged at some time in the future.
        2. A process must be decided and approved as policy for the notification to the community that the owner of the objects has made a decision as to the values to be used for their stuff, and these values SHALL be used.
        3. The policy must cover the timing of the requirement and its relationship to the maturity levels of a normative specification.We must discuss this context of 'breaking changes'
      3. We need this to be the main topic on next week's chairs call.

    2. Additionally related HTA item:  https://chat.fhir.org/#narrow/stream/179252-IG-creation/topic/New.20NUCC.20Taxonomy.20Code.20System.20URL
 zulip chat.  Active discussion.   We need to make a Vocab WG policy about the precise workflow and decision and sequencing of steps for the changes in canonical URLs.    


  12. Next call items
    1. We failed to finish the guidance for NDC11 for the implementers and IG writers, it was NOT completed on the 5/28 call.   A discussion MUST be added on the next call for this.
    2. Add decisions on time boxing call slot items.
    3. Add decisions on chairs calls.
    4. See items above that had to be tabled.
       

The call was ended and adjourned at 6:35PM EDT.  Next call scheduled for Thursday July 9, 2020 at 3:30PM Eastern US Time for two full hours.   

Action items

  • Carmela A. Coudercwill update the FHIR tickets based on the 8H block vote above, and will notify Robert Hausam when done so work can commence on implementing the changes.