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Date


Time

3:30PM EDT (UTC-4). Note that the calls are now two houris in duration.

Quorum  as of 3:40PM PM EDT.  Call completed at 5:38PM EDT

Attendees

Apologies

None received

Planned Agenda Topics and Notes

  1. Roll call and Agenda check (Chair)
    No changes.

  2. Announcements (all)
    • .UTG Pilot has started.
    • Baltimore WGM in September has been changed to a Virtual Event - onsite attendance has been cancelled. 

  3. Action Items Check  (Chair)
    1. We acknowledge that we need to take care of the items on this list. Rob asks that co-chairs especially review their action items and resolve or update
    2. Attendees and especially chairs are again urged to finish and check off their action items.
    3. Some calendar calls will be added today or tomorrow.

  4. Baltimore/September WGM Planning (Chair)
    HL7 has just announced that the WGM will be held virtually - NOT in Baltimore onsite.    We need to begin planning for it now.   The HL7 anncouncement says the WGM meetings will be held Monday, September 21 (afternoon) - Thursday, September 24; the Plenary session will be on Monday morning.   The agenda for the virtual meeting will be created soon.  We await information from HQ about times and schedule recommendations for the Virtual Sessions.   Perhaps we can give HQ some suggestions as to ways to setup the sessions so that we can make best use of the limited Human Resources.  


  5. NDC11 Identification Issue (Rob Hausam, Carol Macumber, Rob McClure)
    We need to know what canonical URL (and OID?) to be used for this in Implementation Guides.   The HTA decided that the different formats of the identifiers for the concepts (10 digits, 11 digits, etc) are not different code systems.    The identifiers are 'recognized' by FDA, although there does not exist a full authoritative set published of all identifiers which is complete.   FDA publishes a large set of many of them on their website.   RxNorm republishes a number of them as well.   There are also at least 3 different formats for the concept identifiers.   The FDA set is published as a 10 digit identifeir; NCPDP publishes guidance to convert the 10 digit format into any one of several different 11 digit formats.   For many years we have had a Code System OID registered by FDA for NDC, in the OID registry.  We also have an entry of NDC as a namespace (type 4 OID) in the OID registry (entered by Grahame a few years ago).  A key implementation point is that an important standard - the Script standard from NCPDP - the 11 digit standard representation is required.  It has been noted that the algorithm to produce these is copyrighted and is proprietary to NCPDP.  We recognize that there are more than one identifier for the concepts considered as NDC concepts.  We also recognize that some of these different identifying concept representations may be published by different organizations and the full specification of the format may be published by different organizations.  We want to agree that there is ONE artifact that implementers treat as a Code System for this content, that has multiple representations of its concepts as identifying representations.  There is a single OID (for OID-oriented HL7 datatypes) and a single canonical URI (for URI-oriented HL7 datatypes).  For NDC, these different kinds of representation formats are widely used in our community.   HL7 will not create additional identifying representations for NDC.   It is incumbent on terminology servers to be able to handle these multiple formats, and for the Vocabulary WG to agree on the filter for value set definition.  The main unique characteristic is that the additional identifying representation is both published by a different organization from the curator/publisher of NDC (FDA) but they do not recognize the format either.

    Rob McClure moves that we support the use of the NCPDP 11-digit format as a second representation of concepts in the NDC code system.  Rob Hausam seconds.   Keith suggest that this be amended to be "Terminology coding systems may have more than one authoritative identifier. NCPDP 11-Digit format is one example of a secondary authoritative identifier.
"   Amendment rejected.   Vote:  12/0/1, motion carries with one abstention.

    Concequent actions:
    - The FHIR documentation needs to be fixed.
    - Guidance for implementers and IG writers must be generated and vetted by the group.

  6.  Issues around 'extensible' and 'unknown' (Carol/ Ioana Singureanu /  Jay Lyle)
    1. There has been some feedback, and progress today.   Many email commentaries 
    2. The project team is working through the comments and changers to address the criticisms
    3. The specific instance of the issue was around the use of a SNOMED code in a coded data element that is extensible (this is not about the value set binding).
    4. It is noted that folks are taking liberties with the encoded of stuff just to get their work done.
    5. This original point is now closed. 
    6. Rob notes that we still need to discuss issues around the use of extensible in the CARIN project (see comment below).   This further related discussion will be placed in a slot for the next call.


  7. UTG Update (Carol/Jess/Ted)
    1. Pilot underway
    2. The beast works.   Fixing issues as they arise.
    3. Added a number of pending detail items:
      1. Notifications.    Will use Jira filters, documentation pending.
    4. Versioning of UTG objects - only the HL7 maintained code systems and value sets
      1. Note that at this point, all changes are tracked with a Version History entry in UTG (Provenance resource instances in hx bundles)
      2. We are doing change tracking on the HL7 Naming System resources in UTG, as well as the external Code System 'stubs' 
      3. There was an extensive discussion on this topic on the UTG call this week and we need to come to closure.
      4. We decided we need a table of the code system elements to make specific decisions on which ones, if changed, will trigger what type of version update to the code system.   Table on Confluence is here.
      5. For this initial phase, all things that are "clean up" of the concept.definition element (eg removal of typos, garbage encoding, nonsense brought in by the import etc) are a major number increment to the code system resource for v2 and v3.   These should all be a one time cleanup per code system and/or value set.
      6. Post that being done, versioning will follow the approach vocabulary WILL approve and it will be applied consistently.
    5. Submitters need an easy cross reference of the UTG resource filenames (and their paths in the branch) with the canonical URL so the proper resource to edit for a change proposal can be easily located.    
      1. For now, we will build a Confluence page for this.
    6. Discussion/Decision items all UTG items below this are out of time and tabled
      1. The plan is STILL to:
        1. Run the Pilot through the month of June
        2. Prefer to complete the pilot in 2-3 weeks maximum
        3. Go over where we are with TSC and CTO, and seek Go-Live decision in June
        4. Announce Go-Live to membership and "turn it on" in July
    7. Status
      1. All information is posted on the  UTG confluence pages and immediate priorities are on UTG Project Tasks broken down by milestone (i.e. publish Release 1 of content)

      2. Content is published we are essentially live.  Not yet doing the Jira workflow process for updates though
      3. SGB has issues with our voting architecture.  They will continue discussion on the Wednesday call next week.   We may end up having to do some re-engineeering of it
    8. Immediate Priorities
      1. Filename cross reference
      2. Notifications opt-in and opt-out instructions
      3. Email to reviewers
      4. Finish debug of curator workflow - implementation flow
    9. Support needed from Vocab

      1. Working through documenting of the pages..  MANY THANKS to Carmela for all her help.

      2. Working through the HTA external URL items
  8. FHIR Tracker Items (Rob Hausam). Tabled, out of time.   Next call
    1. Not yet progress on update of ConceptMap
    2. All folks are requested to join the every other Thursday calls on this topic because without attendees no decisions can be made.  The calls alternative with these main Vocab calls.
    3. Please can folks attend the FHIR tracker calls on the off weeks, we need more people to attend the calls so that we can make progress on the trackers. 
    4. There are a few issues currently marked 'ready to vote'; please look these over as we hope to vote on them on the call next. (same time slot as this call next week). The JIRA query for this is: The JIRA query is named Vocab: ReadyForVote.  There are a number of items in this ReadyForVote state.   We will work through some now:
    5. We tried to get through the one on NamingSystem.title, but could not come to closure; too many knowns on the FHIR governance of spec updates..
    6. We then tried to get through the one on NaminngSystem.use code enhancement for v2 support, and again we could not come to closure as too many unknown in the FHIR governance around maturity level 1 items (code systems, naming system resource, etc) that are code datatypes bound requited to FHIR code systems.  Needs clarification from Grahame/Lloyd.
    7. On last week's FHIR tracker call more tickets have been added into the 'ready to vote' bucket. 

  9. Gender Harmony Project Update (Carol/Rob M) 
    Tabled, out of time.
    Project is progressing.   Working on figuring out "default values" for the 3 notions.   Every call and meeting progress is being made, document defining these is out for review.  A great set of participants from a wide audience are now actively involved and participating.   Unknown if a document will be ready for ballot in September or not, all these items turn out to be harder than folks think once one begins digging into them.    Folks with questions or suggestions are urged to go to the Confluence page for the project.

    An AMIA panel topic was submitted for this in mid-November around HIMSS.

  10. Liaison Reports   
    1. ISO (Ted) - Fall 2020 meeting tentatively scheduled to be in India in October, but unknown what the status is.  Right now my personal feeling is that it will be cancelled.

    2. LOINC (Ted/Rob H) - Document Ontology workgroup had a meeting this week.

    3. HTA (Carol/Reuben) -  HTA continues to work through the external URI issues

    4. SNOMED (Rob H/Reuben/Peter) - For now the Lisbon meeting is proceeding, but not yet a decision on virtual or face-to-face.  But one way or another it will happen. 

  11. New Business
    1. No new business
  12. Next call items
    1. Add decisions on time boxing call slot items.
    2. Add decisions on chairs calls.
    3. See items above that had to be tabled.
       

The call was ended and adjourned at 5:38PM EDT.  Next call scheduled for Thursday June 11, 2020 at 3:30PM Eastern US Time for two full hours.   

Action items

  • Caroline MacumberSet up the WGM agenda for September.  Start with similar organization; but waiting for input from HQ.

1 Comment

  1. With respect to item 6 There is an example that we should review to determine what meets the required meaning of "Extensable" :CARIN RTPBC MedicationRequest.medication

    Where they added NDC codes to the RxNorm list of medications.