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Subcommittee Lead: Jessica Bota 

Supporting TSMG Co-Chair: Reuben Daniels 


Tuesday 8:00-9:00PM UTC

Tuesday 4:00-5:00PM USA EDT

Wednesday 6:00-7:00AM AEST

Wednesday 9:00-10:00AM NZDT 

See for meeting details.


Attendee type:

M - TSMG Member

O -Observer / Guest


P - present

A - Apologies

X - (Apologies with Proxy)



M (Co-Chair)


Reuben DanielsSaludax


Jess Bota

Apelon, Inc.

Lisa Nelson


Michael Faughn

National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
Davera GabrielJohns Hopkins University Institute for Clinical and Translational Research

Dan Vreeman

HL7 International

Ted Klein

Klein Consulting

Marc Duteau 

HL7 International

Joan Harper

Canada Health Infoway

John Snyder

National Library of Medicine

Rob Hausam


Alex Kontur

Ravi KafleWashington State Department of Health
Abdullah RafiqiICF
Hope GrayUAB - Birmingham, HL7 Intern
Martha JonesGeorge Mason, HL7 Intern

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Agenda Topics

Meeting was recorded

Agenda Outline

Time Allocation


Agenda Item
  • Rollcall & Proxies
  • Note that meetings are recorded
  • Agenda check
  • THO is frozen with release expected prior to 11/6
    • This release includes a good mix of change requests from the community, external code system updates, and the addition of the CC0 licensing page and link to it from Home page and footer of every page
    • TSMG voted to increment version to 5.0.0
      • One issue with the release.
      • Everything ready on MD's computer.
      • THO server has been migrated.
      • MD does not have all the permissions for the new HL7 web site server.
      • Josh P is looking into the issue. This will not be a barrier to getting the release out as there is enough time.
  • Note that discussions continue with regards to aligning V2 publication with THO
    • Discussion now on Zulip: 
    • MF
      • Great difficulty in understanding what some parties think needs to be done.
      • Task should be fairly straight forward.
      • Varying ideas about how code systems and value sets work.
      • Consensus still not reached and compromise required to move forward.
      • Taken the word version of Chapter 2C. Scraped content into computable format for comparison with UTG. Should be able to tell everyone the difference between Chapter 2C now and UTG and let people decide where to go from there.
      • Another aspect: difficult to understand why some parties have little confidence in what is coming from the V2 database.
      • The V2 database is used to create the source of truth.
      • The V2 database is complex.
      • 2.9.1 is not published using the FHIR tooling. It uses the same tooling as previous versions of V2.
      • The source of truth for vocabulary for 2.9.1 is THO. There has been some pushback on this from V2 management group.
      • Beyond 2.9.1 (V2+), the idea is to maintain the standard as a computable standard. 
      • Going forward V2+ will be produced by tooling and UTG/THO will be the source of truth and may need to be repackaged and re-rendered but will materially be the same.
      • Whether there is explicit adoption of the FHIR concepts of CodeSystem and ValueSet is hard to come up with a position on. No alignment on this from all members of the V2MG.
    • RD: Unless this is resolved before the January WGM, we may need a V2MG & TSMG joint session to resolve this.
  • Proposed wording on Terminology Expectations expected to be complete on next TSMG main call 
New Business30 RD
  • Handling THO anchored content in the FHIR spec FHIR-37440 - Getting issue details... STATUS  
    • Michael has completed an initial review 
      • Assumption is that resources will share <id> (we know this isn't a rule but we need something to link the resources)
      • There are 42 code systems anchored in THO that are only in the FHIR core specification
        • Need to do same analysis for value sets
        • Assume they need to be moved but would like to finish analysis
      • There are 72 code systems and 190 value sets that are potential duplicates across THO/FHIR
        • Continue to discuss how to address changes across the following code system elements:
          • meta.lastUpdated (all) - not consequential
          • date (all) - not consequential
          • url - once moved, should all be anchored in tho
          • experimental (19) - we assume that all code systems may have been set to false upon moving to THO but this requires verification
          • title (23)
          • valueSet (70)
          • meta.profile (62) - not consequential
          • description (22)
          • publisher (18) - not consequential
          • name (8) - consequential, involve WGs if needed
          • contact (18)
          • status (17)
          • oid (25) - consequential and require cleanup, need to understand how this is happening from Grahame as there are duplicate OIDs across and within THO and FHIR (urn:oid:2.16.840.1.113883.4.642.1.0)
          • property (1)
          • hierarchyMeaning (1)
          • extensions
            • telecom
            • standards status
            • workgroup
            • fmm
          • concepts (18) - consequential, involve WGs if needed
        • Discuss how to address changes across the following value set system elements:
          • name (29)
          • oid (5)
          • status (19)
          • standards-status (10)
          • title (63)
          • description (25)
          • normative-version (1)
          • experimental (159)
          • immutable (123)
          • compose.include.system (19)
          • date (180)
          • extensions 
            • fmm (25)
    • Goal is to get a list of resources we consider duplicates or easily categorizable fixes (only have non-consequential differences) and then a list of duplicate resources that need to be consolidated/resolved
      • Grahame can handle the duplicates and WGs will need to be involved in the resources that need consolidation
    • MF:
      • No new updates.
      • Things can be rearranged if more questions come up.
    • RD: Noting that the freeze for R5 is in February, at our next meeting we should take stock of where things are up to and what our next steps need to be. 
  • Fix the "All HL7 Code Systems" tab to exclude external content
    • Tracked via UP-320 - Getting issue details... STATUS
    • Two options for approach (listed in comments of ticket)
    • Third option proposed: change to the IGPublisher manifest file format to support patterns based on the <id> value in the artefacts. 
      • MD to put this question to the IGPublisher team.
  • Cleanup of HSCR tickets 
    • HSCR-139 - Getting issue details... STATUS
      • This ticket appears to be done. Though its status indicates IN PROGRESS. Jessica Bota , can you close this one?
    • HSCR-118 - Getting issue details... STATUS
      • Support for supplement and fragments may already be supported. Need more detail on what specifically may be required to close this.
      • It would be helpful if the rendering of CodeSystem resources which are fragments, supplements or metadata only, or convenience copies explicitly state this in the yellow box at the top.
    • HSCR-97 - Getting issue details... STATUS
      • Need more information on what is required for this ticket.
    • HSCR-19 - Getting issue details... STATUS
      • Need more detail, this may have been done as we do not have the errors anymore.
Subcommittee Work in Progress15RD
  • THO cleanup
    • These tickets have approval from TSMG to proceed in UTG
      • Fix the "All HL7 Code Systems" tab to exclude external content UP-320 - Getting issue details... STATUS
      • Add subtabs to categorize identifier systems
      • Add profiles and extensions to THO
  • Execution of Deprecation representation and policy in UTG/THO
  • Task force recommendation review and implementation (voting, quorums, WG health, etc.): UTG Task Force Recommendations to TSC 
    • Should review and prioritize for implementation after automation work is stable
   Adjournment0RDCall adjourned at x:xxPM EDT. Next call in two weeks at 4:00PM EDT November 7, 2022.

Action items