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Chair:  Rob McClure / Reuben Daniels 

Scribe: @Reuben Daniels  

Web Meeting Info:

5-6:30pm USA ET

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NOTE: This attendance applies if you are present at the related meeting/call, regardless if you have signed a different attendance for your WG. 


Attendee type:

M - TSMG Member

O -Observer / Guest


P - present

A - Apologies



M (Interim Chair)PSaludax
M (Interim Chair)PMD Partners, Inc.
MPClinical Architecture
MPThe Johns Hopkins University
MPApelon, Inc.
MPNational Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST)
MPHL7 New Zealand
MPHL7 International
OPCanada Health Infoway
National Library of Medicine
Hausam Consulting LLC
OPSNOMED International

Minutes Approved as Presented 


This is to approve minutes via general consent. "You have received the minutes. Are there any corrections to the minutes? (pause) Hearing none, if there are no objections, the minutes are approved as printed."

Agenda Topics

Agenda Outline

Agenda Item

Management Minutes Approval

Admin 45min


  • Elect co-chairs.
  • Elect TSMG rep to the TSC.
  • Agree member terms lengths.
  • Membership
    • Updates from the 18 October 2021 TSC meeting

  • TSMG co-chairs
    • No restriction on number of co-chairs and TSC has agreed to 3
    • Expressed interest: Reuben Daniels , Caroline Macumber , Davera Gabriel 
    • Rob McClure Has withdrawn his nomination for co-chair
    • Mission & Charter needs to note a desire to have an affiliate representative as a co-chair
    • Vote: 

  • TSC rep - wait until after co-chair election. Co-chair can not be rep unless variance approved by TSC

Update on Decision Making Principles (DMP) work

  • Interim DMP addendum for TSMG based on CMG: here:
  • Considerations:
    • Quorum
      • Proposal has been Chair + 3 or 4 members.
      • New DMP template from the TSC may require quorum for closed groups to be chair plus at least half the membership. 
    • Subgroup voting
      • Should the DMPs need to address quorum rules for sub-committees so that they can vote and making binding decisions?
    • Proxies
      • These are supported by the new DMP template.
      • Should any rules be set for their participation?
    • eVoting
TSMG Update to co-chair meeting
  • The next HL7 Co-chair update will happen on Thursday, Oct 21, 2021 04:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada).
  • The TSC and TSC Chair has asked that TSMG either speak about what it is doing and impact on work groups, or a couple of slides, or both for the co-chair webinar this week.

Review Scope and Activities

  • Discussion


 Next agenda


Supporting Documents

Outline Reference

Supporting Document

Minute Approval

Meeting Recording







HTA joining the TSMG

    • RD
    • RM
      • TSC had a full agenda and did not address everything in the HTA request.
      • Specifically, the HTA becoming part of the TSMG and the three currently non-TSMG members of the HTA being appointed as TSMG members.
      • TSC did accept the three nominations for co-chair.
      • Noting the ongoing work of the HTA and the HTA Chair coming on as a TSMG co-chair I have decided to remove my nomination as a co-chair leaving RD, CM and DG as the remaining nominations for co-chair.
      • The TSC also accepted RD and CM continuing as Vocabulary WG co-chairs for the next year.
    • PJ and RM discuss how changes to the GOM are made and agree that the TSC need to recommend the changes to the EC who then recommend it to the board.
    •  RM
      • I also understand that the HTA is like — TSMG are slogging, why do we want to be a part of you — and I think that's a valid concern.
      • Other than the fact that it's a part of you know, the the the the overall scope that has been stated as the TSMG scope, so if HTA remain separate from the TSMG as currently specified by the GOM, which is that it is a TSC reported committee then we are going to have issues and that we're going to have to work to try and talk to each other.
      • We don't want our groups to find out about through our TSC reps or whatever it just seems like a long arc.
    • RD noted that the three non-TSMG members of the HTA have indicated that should they become TSMG members, they would not be interested in nominating for co-chair or TSC rep positions.
    • RM asserted that we are thus now ready to vote for co-chairs

TSMG Co-Chair voting

    • RM called for additional nominations for TSMG co-chairs.
      • No members responded.
    • RM called for any abstentions on the vote.
      • No members responded.
    • RM called for any who oppose the slate of three TSMG co-chairs: CM, DG and RD
      • No members responded.
    • RM declared that the TSMG members have unanimously confirmed the three TSMG co-chairs as CM, DG and RD.

TSMG Representative on the TSC

    • RM invited RD and CM to confirm whether they remain interested in becoming the TSC rep?
      • RD confirmed that he is not interested.
      • CM confirmed that she is not interested.
    • RM invited any other TSMG members to nominate to stand as the TSC rep.
      • No members responded.
    • RM called for any members who wish to abstain from the vote on the TSC rep.
      • No members responded.
    • RM called for any members who oppose RM being the TSC rep.
      • No members responded.
    • RM declared that he is unanimously confirmed as the TSMG rep to the TSC.

Member terms

Refreshing membership by restricting the number of terms that a member can serve 

    • WK
      • I'm not sure was addressed in the Charter, but the GOM the for the HTA set a maximum of three terms for each members. I do think we should retain that.
    • RM queried whether that is true for management groups
    • WK
      • I don't think the management groups are identified in the GOM, only the HTA because they are a board committee.
      • I think it makes sense to refresh membership.
      • So maybe that's a topic with Austin
    • RD
      • I think that might be a topic for a different forum but I guess what we're looking at a year from now s that the HTA as currently constituted won't exist.
    • WK
      • That's right, but just the idea of getting refreshing membership is good so it doesn't become a perpetual standing committee.

    • RM
      • If we wanted to make sure we had an international co-chair whether would we state that?
    • WK
      • That should be in the mission and charter I would say.
    • RM
      • So in addition to the charter can the idea of refreshing membership be added?
    • WK
      • We should discuss with Austin but it may not be necessary if we are removing the HTA from the GOM.
    • RM
      • I think it's a worthwhile rule for this committee honestly.
    •  WK
      • Yes, absolutely.
      • I am trying to figure out where to document it.
    • RD
      • I think it is a good idea in principle but I don't want TSMG to necessarily deviate from any of the other management groups on that point.
      • I am also particularly aware that that finding people to sign up and people that are appropriately skilled is difficult.
      • So I would be looking for consistent rules across all the management groups rather than special rules for TSMG.
    • DG
      • I agree, I do not want TSMG to be different to any of the other management groups.
      • Taking Ted Klein as an example, there is sometimes a dearth of wisdom and experience.
      • I would hate to try to be smart about the rules at the expense of really looking at the community that supports the work.
    • WK
      • There's no limits for work groups it's just management groups are different and quite honestly I don't know what the rule is.
      • I'll take an action to discuss with Austin.
    • JH
      • With respect to affiliate representation on management groups I wouldn't be adverse to that being applied to all the management groups.
    • RM
      • Even with rules limiting terms, there will always be a way to participate somewhere.
      • I agree that management groups are different to working groups and can have different rules.
      • So term limits are certainly worth considering.

Yielding chairmanship

  • RM yields chairing this meeting to RD.

Infrastructure update

  • RD summarises TSMG infrastructure setup including
    • The two TSMG Zulip streams remain operational.
    • The TSMG page is setup on the HL7 Website and I'll be reaching out to HQ to update the members page with the newly elected leadership roles.
    • It is really key that everyone sign up to the TSMG listserv list to ensure you get the correct conference call information.
    • TSMG now has a dedicated Zoom account as well.
    • Through the work RM, LN and RD did on the DMPs, we also agreed to create two new pages in Confluence for lists of decisions and approvals. These can be found here:
Decision Making Practices (DMPs)All
  • RD
    • Before starting, can RM or WK provide an update on the new DMP template from the TSC
  • WK
    • I don't think it was finalised.
    • We did not get to it in the agenda.
  • RM
    • Yes, it has not been finalised as is in the backlog.
    • Interestingly, the TSC updated template includes many of the things we have in the draft DMPs.
    • In relation to quorum, if you have 12 members, you probably don't want to go higher than four - but that's for the group to decide.
    • I'll get some feedback from the TSC as to whether there's a kind of hard rule about it, apparently not.
    • In relation to waiting for the TSC to update the template, I think we should plough ahead and discuss ours.
    • You know what we would put in the DMP and because the changes are primarily around the voting, and we should wait to see what the DMP has on that.
    • I think when we can just template that process and because it'll probably just be numbers
    • There are some things I again have some concerns with regards to things that are in the DMP and expectations on the voting that I think are too strenuous so let's wait on that.
    • The rest if pretty much set.
  • RD
    • The link in the agendas to the DMP addendum in its current state based on the work of RM, LN and I and there are a number of discussions for consideration around these.
    • Firstly, what should quorum be.
      • Discussions resulted in members agreeing to: 50% of members including the chair of the meeting if the chair having a casting vote.
    • Secondly, subcommittee voting
      • Discussions resulted in members agreeing to: All subcommittee votes must be eVotes for which the quorum rules apply. Members outside the subcommittee can refer matters to telecon.
    • Third, proxy voting
      • Discussions resulted in members agreeing to: Proxies must be voting members.
TSMG update at Co-Chair update meetingAll
  • The following was decided in relation to the TSMG update during the co-chair meeting:
    • The presentation should cover
      • TSMG scope,
      • Management of THO publication and UTG processes
      • How terminology is used around the ecosystem
      • That we are working on our relationship with HTA
      • TSMG's impact on work groups.
      • Drawing attention to the HTA request regarding code system metadata records in THO
    • DV would deliver the presentation.
Next meetingAll
  • Voting on the DMPs
  • Hopefully forming subcommittees.


  • Reuben Daniels Notify Austin about the TSMG leadership votes and term limits.
  • Wayne Kubick Discuss maximum number of terms a management group member can serve.