Meeting Information

Attendee Pass: HTAMeet

Chair:  Julie James

Scribe: Caroline Macumber


Attendee type:

H - HTA Member

O - observer

L - liaison


P - present

A - Apologies



HPJulie JamesBlue Wave Informatics LLP

Roel Barelds

Precipius b.v.

HPSusan MatneyIntermountain Health
HPSylvia ThunHL7 Germany
HPCarol MacumberClinical Architecture
HAReuben DanielsSaludax
HPDavera GabrielJohns Hopkins University Institute for Clinical and Translational Research

Wayne Kubick


Suzy RoySNOMED International
Andrea MacLeanCanada Health Infoway
Soraya AssarMathematica
OPTed KleinKlein Consulting / HL7 UTG / Vocabulary WG CoChair
OPSwapna AbhyankarRegenstrief Institute
Rob HausamVocabulary WG CoChair
Rob McClureUS Realm Liason
OPCarmela CoudercVocab WG CoChair
Grahame GrieveHL7 International

Minutes of Teleconference 2020-08-19 

Motion to accept proposed and accepted.

Agenda Topics

Agenda Outline

Agenda Item


Meeting Minutes from Discussion



Minutes Approval


Quorum is met

Motion to approve Minutes proposed

Susan Moves, Julie seconds: Motion 6-0-0

ManagementPlanning for September Virtual WGMOngoingJulie

This is a reminder ** Not requiring further discussion

HL7’s Virtual Plenary & Working Group Meeting from September 21-25

Currently scheduled (via the Doodle website):

  • HTA (Open) Tuesday 22 September - two "slots" between 19.00-23.00 BST (I think); we can choose when to meet within that range; will aim for 19.00-21:00 BST (14.00-16.00 EST)
  • HTA with Vocab Wednesday 23 September - two slots 2-3pm EST - focus on UTG and 3-4pm EST 

Tripartite HTA-Vocab-FHIR-I - confirmed 6-8pm EST Thursday 24 September (not required for Europeans to attend since it is at midnight)

Topics to include

    • Code System Maintenance
    • When is a code system not a code system
    • Managing externally sourced artefacts in UTG
TopicNew PSSContinuousJulie

No new PSS currently

TopicExternal SDO Issues or additional topicsContinuous

Carol and Swapna Abhyankar


Regenstrief is the owner of UCUM, and have recently taken over publication of the UCUM specification from its previous publisher.

The canonical URL is

The site redirects to the site, but ideally the canonical URL would be listed throughout HL7, e.g., on the following pages: (for the R5 release).


TK: Because of the redirect there is less of a mechanical issue of breaking. It is appropriate and proper for the code system owner to declare the canonical URL.

JJ: There isn't am HTA external terminology page for UCUM currently, as there is open discussion regarding whether UCUM is published as a code system. Rather, it is a syntax.

TK: There are code systems that are only a grammar and not usable as is, codes always have to be created. 

JJ: Is that vocab policy documented anyplace? 

TK: Yes it is documented in Core Principles. 

JJ: We will review and with validation, HTA will create an external terminology page for UCUM. 

TK: Great use case to pilot through proposed process (we have been working on the talking points for the process to support vocab's policy on code system identifier maintenance).

CM will create the UCUM HTA page, SA to review and approve, this will trigger the JIRA UTG process to create/update the necessary terminology objects wtihin UTG.


External Code Systems 



2) NCI-Thesaurus (

3) Any follow up on Graham's conversation

"Grahame pointed out that licensing on the HTA page does not differentiate between the copyright of the code system and the copyright of the use of the system. Rob M queried for an example and Grahame agreed to provide one."

JJ: Any action items for HTA? Feels like we are making life more difficult than necessary. Will await Grahame's example.

DG: Difference in reach of copyright statements from code systems to value sets. He wanted to come to the HTA pages to get his copyright statements

TK: HL7 terminology is a FHIR IG (implemented and published), that needs (in it's text area) a text section for copyright sitations for all content that is published in the IG. Happy to put a place in for it,...should it be copy? pulled in from HTA pages? something else?

JJ: A single source of information would be ideal

SA: LOINC has codes that have a third party does that fit in this discussion? One example - Braden Scale for predicting pressure ulcer risk (  We did not get permission from AAP to put in the Vanderbilt ADHD Diagnostic Rating Scale (VADRS). 

SM: In our IGs, we have the LOINC copyright, but not the third party. We are using third party codes and likely need their copyright information (in addition to LOINC's).

ST: There are also different copyrights for translations

Consider adding verbiage on the HTA page with regards to the acceptance of copyright statement and the larger license, which includes any additional Notice of Third Party Content and Copyright Terms

4) Canonical URLs for nursing classifications ICF, ICNP, LEP, ENP, CCC

JIRA:  FHIR-25263 - Getting issue details... STATUS


JIRA ticket has been udpated with some next steps. Need to revist this as a priority on the next call.

TopicUTG UpdateContinuousCarol/Ted(We did not get to this item)
TopicIssue with NUCCNewTed/Rob McC

NUCC HIPPA Value Sets (We did not get to this item)

For V3 value sets using NUCC, there are enumerated values (even if an intensional definition - e.g. all children of level 1 concepts").  Codes have changed....and value sets are now not generating correctly.  The value set stewards are responsible to updates, but there is currently a set of erroneous value sets from NUCC for core MIF content. Gail Kochar is responsible for NUCC but currently it is not behaving as a "well behaved code system".  
Rob H has some responsibility as maintainer of the terminology server for the FHIR build 

RobMc/Ted/RobH to sort and report back

AdjournmentMeeting adjournedN/AJulie

Call adjourned at xx.00 BST

Action Items

  • Reuben Daniels  create the ISCO-08 Page
  • Reuben Daniels to check with Joshua Procious to determine if we can transfer tickets from FHIR or UTG project to the HL7 JIRA project
  • 8-Jul-2020:Davera Gabriel will run with NCI Thesaurus vs NCI Meta-thesaurus matter.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Caroline Macumber Carol will arrange the joint meetings which Vocab/FHIR will host.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Julie James Julie will arrange the HTA meetings.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Caroline Macumber  to create NHSN HSLOC stub. – National Healthcare Safety Network (NHSN) Healthcare Service Location Codes (HSLC) 
  • 22-Jul-2020: Sheila Abner to complete information in NHSN HSLOC stub.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Reuben Daniels advise the Zulip Implementer and Terminology chat about the stub for comment.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Julie James to contact PSS group (possibly PIC) regarding PSS changes.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Julie Jamesto respond to the call to Karyn v H on behalf of the group managing the GOM (PIC) and the executive committee regarding SOUs.
  • 2-Aug-2020: Julie James check Jira configuration for HTA "vote" on consensus review in UTG
  • 2-Aug-2020: Julie James Caroline Macumber contact LOINC to clarify the "FHIR licence agreement"
  • 19-Aug-2020: NCI-Thesaurus: Davera Gabrieland Rob McClurewill meet with the NCI-Thesaurus owner to discuss using a URL with the .owl extension (being respectful of previous discussion between them and Julie).
  • 19-Aug-2020: NCI-Thesaurus: Julie Jameswill update the HTA pages in relation to NCT Metathesaurus.
  • 19-Aug-2020: Grahame's Page:Reuben Daniels  volunteered to work with Grahame, Ted, and Josh to come up with an approach to address the need for machine processing of HTA information about external code systems.
  • 19-Aug-2020: Copyright for value sets:Reuben Daniels to raise a ticket for the creation of a field to capture external code system copyright's in the FHIR ValueSet resource in compose.include 
  •  02-Sept 2020: Julie Jamesto review core princple definition of "code system", in particular its inclusion of "grammar only"/syntaxes similar to UCUM as formal code systems
  • 02-Sept-2020: Caroline Macumber to create stub for UCUM
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