Meeting Information

Attendee Pass: HTAMeet

Chair:  Julie James

Scribe: Reuben Daniels


Attendee type:

H - HTA Member

O - observer

L - liaison


P - present

A - Apologies



HPJulie JamesBlue Wave Informatics LLP

Roel Barelds

Precipius b.v.

HASusan MatneyIntermountain Health
HASylvia ThunHL7 Germany
Carol MacumberClinical Architecture
HPReuben DanielsSaludax
HPDavera GabrielJohns Hopkins University Institute for Clinical and Translational Research

Wayne Kubick


Suzy RoySNOMED International
Andrea MacLeanCanada Health Infoway
Soraya AssarMathematica
Ted KleinKlein Consulting / HL7 UTG / Vocabulary WG CoChair
Jessica BotaApelon
OPRob HausamVocabulary WG CoChair
LPRob McClureUS Realm Liason
Carmela CoudercVocab WG CoChair
OPGrahame GrieveHL7 International

Minutes of Teleconference 2020-08-05 

Motion to accept proposed and accepted.

Agenda Topics

Agenda Outline

Agenda Item


Meeting Minutes from Discussion



Minutes Approval


Quorum is met

Motion to approve Minutes proposed

Roel moves, Devera seconds: Motion 2-0-0

ManagementPlanning for September Virtual WGMOngoingJulie

This is a reminder ** Not requiring further discussion

HL7’s Virtual Plenary & Working Group Meeting from September 21-25

Currently scheduled (via the Doodle website):

  • HTA (Open) Tuesday 22 September - two "slots" between 19.00-23.00 BST (I think); we can choose when to meet within that range; will aim for 19.00-21:00 BST (14.00-16.00 EST)
  • HTA with Vocab Wednesday 23 September - two slots 2-3pm EST - focus on UTG and 3-4pm EST 

Tripartite HTA-Vocab-FHIR-I - to check/confirm 6-8pm EST Thursday 24 September (not required for Europeans to attend since it is at midnight)

Topics to include

    • Code System Maintenance
    • When is a code system not a code system
    • Managing externally sourced artefacts in UTG
TopicNew PSSContinuousJulie

No new PSS currently

TopicGOM changesUpdateJulie

Email sent to GOC, who are "forwarding our comments to the EC for consideration" (ref. email to HTA List 2020-07-28 22:08 BST)

Julie to check in a couple of weeks' time if any further feedback

TopicExternal SDO Issues or additional topicsContinuous

Carol and Suzy Roy 

Update on LOINC Licencing discussion


External Code Systems 



  • 19-Aug-2020:
    • Carol has made updates. Roel has had a look at them and agrees on them.

2) NCI-Thesaurus (


  • 19-Aug-2020:
    • Meeting between HL7 and LOINC
      • Rob H and Reuben met with LOINC (Swapna and others) on Tuesday, 17 August 2020.
      • Parties agreed to short and long term goals in relation to the Using LOINC with FHIR page –
      • LOINC wants to get the copyright statement and other items fixed – Rob is working on this now. 
    • Grahame's page on copyrights
      • Julie queried why a page is required when copyright information is available from the HTA. Grahame responded that his page will be observational and track changes across the core and all implementation guides which is not supported by current tooling. This is a new QA this to ensure HTA conformance.
      • Roel queried whether a link to the HTA pages could be supported. Grahame said he could, but these are not machine processable. Reuben suggested that UTG may provide a solution if the NamingSystem and CodeSystems for external code systems in UTG could be tagged as endorsed by the HTA. Grahame suggested that another approach might be to export the HTA confluence page to a JSON file which Grahame's tooling could process.
      • Reuben volunteered to work with Grahame, Ted, and Josh to come up with an approach to address the need for machine processing.
    • Grahame demonstrated the IG build's generation of HTA analysis with the build of USCore:
      • The tool displays all the non-HL7 code systems used and evaluated copyright statements in value sets used.
      • Reuben commented that HL7 policy needs to address the expectations and requirements for including copyright statements in value sets in HL7 standards and implementations.
        • Julie suggested that this should be discussed at the Vocabulary and HTA joint. Grahame was invited to attend the joint HTA/Vocab/FHIR-I meeting at the virtual September 2020. 
      • Rob M queried the cardinality of copyright in value set and suggested this could be a way to resolve this. Reuben responded that it is 0..1. 
      • Reuben called out that we need consider to copyright of the value set as separate to the copyright of the external code systems it uses.
      • Grahame suggested an extension could be used on the include itself. Rob M and Reuben agreed this is a good approach and Reuben suggested it might be core field given its importance. Grahame said a ticket could be raised suggesting the change and indicated an extension would typically be the way to start and then move it into the core resource. Reuben agreed to raise a ticket.
      • Grahame pointed out that licensing on the HTA page does not differentiate between the copyright of the code system and the copyright of the use of the system. Rob M queried for an example and Grahame agreed to provide one.
TopicCopyright StatementsNewJulieGrahame's emails
TopicCode system "stub" creationOngoingCarol/ReubenDo we need to do any more on this?
TopicCommunicating ChangeOngoingWayne

Do we need to do any more on this?

TopicUpdate to new PSS ProcessUpdateJulie

Response from Melva; will send us a screen shot when implemented.

Will keep the request regarding the NIB on file

TopicUTG UpdateContinuousCarol/Jess
TopicIssue with NUCCNewTed/Rob McC


For V3 value sets using NUCC, there are enumerated values (even if an intensional definition - e.g. all children of level 1 concepts").  Codes have changed....and value sets are now not generating correctly.  The value set stewards are responsible to updates, but there is currently a set of erroneous value sets from NUCC for core MIF content. Gail Kochar is responsible for NUCC but currently it is not behaving as a "well behaved code system".  
Rob H has some responsibility as maintainer of the terminology server for the FHIR build 

RobMc/Ted/RobH to sort and report back

AdjournmentMeeting adjournedN/AJulie

Call adjourned at xx.00 BST

Action Items

  • Reuben Daniels  create the ISCO-08 Page
  • Reuben Daniels to check with Joshua Procious to determine if we can transfer tickets from FHIR or UTG project to the HL7 JIRA project
  • 8-Jul-2020:Davera Gabriel will run with NCI Thesaurus vs NCI Meta-thesaurus matter.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Caroline Macumber Carol will arrange the joint meetings which Vocab/FHIR will host.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Julie James Julie will arrange the HTA meetings.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Caroline Macumber  to create NHSN HSLOC stub. – National Healthcare Safety Network (NHSN) Healthcare Service Location Codes (HSLC) 
  • 22-Jul-2020: Sheila Abner to complete information in NHSN HSLOC stub.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Reuben Daniels advise the Zulip Implementer and Terminology chat about the stub for comment.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Julie James to contact PSS group (possibly PIC) regarding PSS changes.
  • 22-Jul-2020: Julie Jamesto respond to the call to Karyn v H on behalf of the group managing the GOM (PIC) and the executive committee regarding SOUs.
  • 2-Aug-2020: Julie James check Jira configuration for HTA "vote" on consensus review in UTG
  • 2-Aug-2020: Julie James Caroline Macumber contact LOINC to clarify the "FHIR licence agreement"
  • 19-Aug-2020: NCI-Thesaurus: Davera Gabrieland Rob McClurewill meet with the NCI-Thesaurus owner to discuss using a URL with the .owl extension (being respectful of previous discussion between them and Julie).
  • 19-Aug-2020: NCI-Thesaurus: Julie Jameswill update the HTA pages in relation to NCT Metathesaurus.
  • 19-Aug-2020: Grahame's Page:Reuben Daniels  volunteered to work with Grahame, Ted, and Josh to come up with an approach to address the need for machine processing of HTA information about external code systems.
  • 19-Aug-2020: Copyright for value sets:Reuben Daniels to raise a ticket for the creation of a field to capture external code system copyright's in the FHIR ValueSet resource in compose.include 
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