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Meeting Details

Date: September 29, 2023

Time: 1PM ET

Coordinates:  Join Zoom meeting: | Meeting ID: 510 046 7805 | +1 929-436-2866-US (New York)


Riki Merrick (Vernetzt, LLC / APHL), Rob Hausam (Hausam Consulting), Hans Buitendijk (Oracle), JD Nolen (Mercy Children's Hospital), Alec Johnson (IMO), Andrea Pitkus (UW), Dan Rutz (Epic), Daniel Golson (JMC), Jeff Crichlake, Kathy Walsh (Labcorp), Nancy Spector (AMA), Pat Banning (3M Health Info Systems), Peter Kendall (Flexion), Scott Fradkin (Flexion), Shawn Cleary, Sheryl Taylor (NIST), Marti Velezis (Sonrisa / FDA)

Chair: Rob Hausam

Scribe:  Marti Velezis, Riki Merrick

  • Quorum (Co-Chair + 2) Met 


  • Standing Topics 
    • eSignature Update
    • Race/Ethnicity Code changes
    • COW/FOE updates
  • LOI/LRI ACK Choreography questions
  • Copy from prior notes:
    • ObservationDefinition.qualifiedInterval.condition (October 20)
    • DiagnosticReport.status
    • Other JIRAs form Triage Inventory below
    • Other agenda items?

Meeting Resources

JIRA Dashboards:

JIRA Grouping Tags:

  • OO-Lab - to indicate when the JIRA Ticket should be reviewed by the OO Lab SMEs, especially when the issue is not assigned to the Resource owner.

Meeting Minutes

Previous Meeting Notes

Standing Topics

eSignature Update

  • Follow-up date

No updates today

eSignature Update

2023-02-24 OO - LAB/LIVD

From Chat (2023-06-23 LAB)  Andrea Pitkus:  Regarding e-sig, I came across this CLIA doc (see #5):

New Rule on Race/Ethnicity from OMB/CDC

  • Follow-up date  

No updates today

New Rule on Race/Ethnicity from OMB/CDC

COW/FOE Update

Link to Minutes:

2023-09-29 OO FHIR COW

Special Topics

Follow up on ISA Comments voted on during the WGM

  • The comment was voted on by OO on the WGM quarter, was forwarded to PAC and it will be submitted as part of that package
  • Individual suggestions can be made by anyone
  • see link in chat for more details

LOI/LRI ACK Choreography Question

It seems like the structure of when to send back an AA response with I and or W's?, and AE with E's (or maybe W's) isn't as clearly defined as it is with immunizations.  So I'm trying to find a general rule of thumb that applies to these,

If an error warning severity, is I or W, do we send back an AA response? or do Ws belong with AE's in a nut shell!



ERR|||101^required field missing|W|||Field lastName is required.

As far as I recall, the original ELR standard didn’t have much to say on when the MSA-1 values should be used. The MSA-1 value set for the harmonized LOI/ELR updated IG which does provide some guidance on when to use each code.

But I think there is a larger (and much messier) question here about original versus enhanced mode acknowledgments. Looking at both the original and harmonized IGs, I think support for at least MSH-15 is required. This means that the exchange is locked into enhanced mode acknowledgments. Technically (anyone correct me if I get this wrong), this essentially means that MSH-15 is AL (perhaps not technically a requirement in the original ELR) and MSH-16 is NE (I don’t know of any system that responds to an ORU message with an application level ACK). Assuming that the ORU you are getting has MSH-15 and/or -16 populated, what you are probably responding with is the accept ACK and not the application ACK which means the relevant codes are CA, CR and CE (not AA, AR and AE). Note that this is little bit different than the immunization space where (despite using MSH-15 and -16) the expectation is that the IIS will return the equivalent of an application level ACK.

Now if you look at Chapter 2 of the v2.5.1 base standard it says:

This tells you what validation should be performed upon accepting a message and how to populate MSA-1. It’s fairly limited in it’s scope although I think that condition (c) might be interpreted pretty broadly to allow syntactic correctness checks (such as a missing required field).

All of this to say, that CE is probably the right code to use when there is an error that isn’t related to the contents of specific MSH fields.

Now, having said all that, in the real world, I don’t know what your trading partners are going to expect. Or if the ACK you construct will ever actually get back to the sending application unless it’s a direct connections with no intermediaries (including interface engines) in between. The diagram below is from the harmonized LRI IG which clearly shows the distinction between accept and application level ACKs. If I had to guess, there will only be accept ACKs used and the ACK you construction will only ever go back one “hop” to indicate acceptance of the message.

  • Discussion today:
    • AE seems applicable – should be from the receiving system = application level
    • If AA is sent there should be NO ERR segments, because if AA is sent, receiver may not ever look for ERR segments
    • Sidebar about the example: An error for a required field should really be a reject
    • A receving system would:
      • parse message and create ERR for each found item
      • each has its own level of severity
      • The highest level of severity sets the MSA-1 code
    • What to do with the ‘I’ level severities?
    • Labcorp does not send ERR for AA or CA
    • Take a look at Immunizations IG
    • Could also take to INM to ensure we have this more consistent across the board Ulrike Merrick 
    • Daniel Rutz  and Hans Buitendijk  will check what their systems are doing when severity level is I
  • Will follow up with InM and report back in 2 weeks.



  • Substantive changes to Normative – requires community consensus
  • For observationStatus we will need to change definitions so that amended and corrected are mutually exclusive
    • In V2 we are sending NTEs after the amended OBX, so in FHIR we would do that in observation.note, so the observation resource is changed, without the observation.value being changed
    • Corrected relates to changes in observation.value and observation.interpretation
    • Amended (in the lab space) relates to any other changes in observation
    • If folks want to have these explicitly identified we can either
      • Update the definition of amended
      • add a sibling code to corrected
    • Lab status may not work with current value set hierarchy
    • Maybe we need to create a labObservation?
  • We would have to reach out to ALL the folks using observations – in all domains
    • Action item – :
      • For CAP accreditation define what we need to have
        • at report level
        • at observation level

Action item: 

  • Need to write up for Lab specific use = For CAP accreditation define what we need to have

Adjourned 2:02 PM ET

Chat History:

Hans Buitendijk  to  Everyone 1:11 PM

On CPT-PLA, the text submitted is in italic on this page: OO Lab and CPT PLA where we provided an either/or first indicating to update the current page, or alternatively add another.

Marti Velezis to Everyone (Sep 29, 2023, 1:38 PM)
Riki Merrick to Everyone (Sep 29, 2023, 1:39 PM)
Marti Velezis to Everyone (Sep 29, 2023, 1:39 PM)
Andrea Pitkus to Everyone (Sep 29, 2023, 1:55 PM)
Amended/amendment - Any change in a previously issued anatomic pathology or cytopathology report
intended to correct an inaccuracy, including changes in the diagnosis, narrative text, clinical history, pre- and
post-operative diagnoses, patient identification, or other content.
from CAP general checklist
and Corrected/correction - A change in a previously issued clinical pathology test report intended to correct an
inaccuracy, including changes in test results, patient identification, reference intervals, interpretation, or other
CAP is the largest accreditor of labs.
Note CAP indicates amendment is used in AP/cytopathy, but not clinical lab/clinical pathology

These definitions should be in notes from a few weeks ago when discussed too

JIRA Triage Inventory

V2 Lab JIRAs (link)

The following JIRA Tickets need to be reviewed by the Lab members as carry over from May 2023 WGM:

FHIR Lab JIRA (link)

The following JIRA Tickets need to be reviewed by the Lab members as carry over from May 2023 WGM:

--------Backlog of Topics---------

  • Other JIRAs from Triage Inventory - Not discussed